Here's some lexical resources for the first episode, in case people want to look at the available data on the terms we discussed.
Eph 5:4 "filthy language" (aischrotes)-
Mounce Greek Dictionary:
G157 | S G151 αἰσχρότης aischrotēs 1x obscenity, indecency
Strong's Greek:
αἰσχρότης aischrotes, ahee-skhrot´-ace; from 150; shamefulness, i.e. obscenity: — filthiness.
Thayer:
αἰσχρότης; aischrotēs, aischrotētos, hē, baseness, dishonor: Eph. 5:4 (A.V. filthiness). (Plato, Gorgias 525 a.)
Louw & Nida:
ἀσχημονέω; ἀσχημοσύνηa, ης f; αἰσχύνηc, ης f; αἰσχρότης, ητος f: to act in defiance of social and moral standards, with resulting disgrace, embarrassment, and shame — ‘to act shamefully, indecent behavior, shameful deed.’
ἀσχημονέω: ἡ ἀγάπη … οὐκ ἀσχημονεῖ, οὐ ζητεῖ τὰ ἑαυτῆς ‘love … never behaves shamefully and does not seek its own interests’ 1Cor 13:4-5.
ἀσχημοσύνηa: ἄρσενες ἐν ἄρσεσιν τὴν ἀσχημοσύνην κατεργαζόμενοι ‘men do shameful deeds with each other’ Ro 1:27.
αἰσχύνηc: κύματα ἄγρια θαλάσσης ἐπαφρίζοντα τὰς ἑαυτῶν αἰσχύνας ‘they are like wild waves of the sea with their shameful deeds showing up like foam’ Jd 13.
αἰσχρότης: αἰσχρότης καὶ μωρολογία ἢ εὐτραπελία, ἃ οὐκ ἀνῆκεν ‘indecent behavior, foolish and dirty talk are not fitting for you’ Eph 5:4.
Behavior involving disgrace, embarrassment, and shame is often expressed in an idiomatic manner, for example, ‘to bury one’s face,’ ‘to hide one’s eyes,’ or ‘to feel stabbed by people’s eyes.’ Since shame is seemingly a universal type of feeling, there is usually no difficulty involved in obtaining a satisfactory equivalent.
BDAG:
αἰσχρότης, ητος, ἡ (range of sense like αἰσχρός: Pla., Gorg. 525a; Artem. 4, 2 p. 204, 8) behavior that flouts social and moral standards, shamefulness, obscenity, abstr. for concr.= αἰσχρολογία (q.v.) Eph 5:4 (KKuhn, NTS 7, ’61, 339 [Qumran]).—TW.
TDNT:
αἰσχύνω aischýnō [to be ashamed], ἐπαισχύνω epaischýnō [to be ashamed], καταισχύνω kataischýnō [to put to shame], αἰσχύνη aischýnē [shame], αἰσχρός aischrós [shameful], αἰσχρότης aischrótēs [shame]
A. The Linguistic Usage in the LXX. Unlike the aidṓs group, this group was in common use and is thus often found in the LXX. The sense is “to shame,” “put to
{p. 30}
shame” (God mostly as subject), “be shamed or ashamed” (personally rather than publicly). The main point of aischýnē is not “feeling of shame” but “disgrace,” i.e., the shame brought by divine judgment, though sometimes with a stress on “being ashamed.”
B. The NT Usage. The same meanings are found here: “to shame” (1 Cor. 11:4-5), “to bring to shame” (1 Cor. 1:27), “to be ashamed” (Lk. 16:3), almost “disillusioned” (Phil. 1:20). aischýnē means “disgrace” (Heb. 12:2; Jude 13), with a play on the sexual sense in Rev. 3:18. aischrós means “what is disgraceful” (1 Cor. 11:6; Eph. 5:12; Tit. 1:11). aischrótēs occurs only in Eph. 5:4 where it refers to “shameful talk.”
Col 3:8 "abusive speech" (aischrologia)
Mounce Greek Dictionary:
αἰσχρολογία aischrologia 1x vile or obscene language, foul talk
Strong's Greek:
αἰσχρολογία aischrologia, ahee-skhrol-og-ee´-ah; from 150 and 3056; vile conversation: — filthy communication.
Thayer:
αἰσχρολογία; aischrologia, aischrologias, hē (from aischrologos, and this from aischros and legō), foul speaking (Tertullian turpiloquium), low and obscene speech, (R.V. shameful speaking): Col. 3:8; (Xenophon, Aristotle, Polybius) (Cf. Lightfoot at the passage; Trench, sec. xxxiv.)
Louw & Nida:
αἰσχρολογία, ας f: obscene, shameful speech involving culturally disapproved themes — ‘vulgar speech, obscene speech, dirty talk.’ ἀπόθεσθε … βλασφημίαν, αἰσχρολογίαν ἐκ τοῦ στόματος ὑμῶν ‘get rid of … slander and dirty talk that ever came from your lips’ Col 3:8.
BDAG:
αἰσχρολογία, ας, ἡ (X. et al.; Polyb., Diod. S., Plut., Epict.; POxy 410, 77)
speech of a kind that is generally considered in poor taste, obscene speech, dirty talk (Aristot., EN 4, 8 [1128a], contrasts the preference for obscenity in older drama with the more refined taste of later times and argues that αἰ., obscenity, can be expected from those of servile nature but not from a cultured gentleman. Clem. Al., Paed. 2, 6, 52 αἰ. εἰκότως ἂν καλοῖτο ἡ περὶ τῶν τῆς κακίας ἔργων λογοποιία, οἷον τὸ περὶ μοιχείας διαλέγεσθαι ἢ παιδεραστίας = αἰ. might properly be defined as story-telling involving such unseemly deeds as adultery or pederasty. αἰσχρός=obscene: Ps.-Demetr. Eloc. 151). Obscene expressions would also be used to flavor derogatory remarks (s. Aristot. above); hence the rendering
scurrilous talk (Polyb. 8, 11, 8; 31, 6, 4; BGU 909, 11f ) is pertinent Col 3:8, esp. since βλασφημία (=‘defamation’, s. βλ. a) immediately precedes. The gener. sense
dirty talk fits D 5:1, which could apply to ribald stories as well as scurrilous talk.—AWikenhauser, BZ 8, 1910, 270. DELG s.v. αἶσχος. M-M. Sv.
Here is Aristotle's piece we mentioned:
Those then who go to excess in ridicule are thought to be buffoons and vulgar fellows, who itch to have their joke at all costs, and are more concerned to raise a laugh than to keep within the bounds of decorum and avoid giving pain to the object of their raillery. Those on the other hand who never by any chance say anything funny themselves and take offence at those who do, are considered boorish and morose. Those who jest with good taste are called witty
1 or versatile—that is to say, full of good turns; for such sallies seem to spring from the character, and we judge men's characters, like their bodies, by their movements. [
4] But as matter for ridicule is always ready to hand, and as most men are only too fond of fun and raillery, even buffoons are called witty and pass for clever fellows; though it is clear from what has been said that Wit is different, and widely different, from Buffoonery. [
5] The middle disposition is further characterized by the quality of tact, the possessor of which will say, and allow to be said to him, only the sort of things that are suitable to a virtuous man and a gentleman: since there is a certain propriety in what such a man will say and hear in jest, and the jesting of a gentleman differs from that of a person of servile nature, as does that of an educated from that of an uneducated man. [
6] The difference may be seen by comparing the old and the modern comedies; the earlier dramatists found their fun in obscenity, the moderns prefer innuendo, which marks a great advance in decorum. [
7] Can we then define proper raillery by saying that its jests are never unbecoming to gentlemen, or that it avoids giving pain or indeed actually gives pleasure to its object? Or is it impossible to define anything so elusive? for tastes differ as to what is offensive and what amusing. [
8] Whatever rule we lay down, the same will apply to the things that a man should allow to be said to him, since we feel that deeds which a man permits to be ascribed to him he would not stop at actually doing. [
9] Hence a man will draw the line at some jokes; for raillery is a sort of vilification, and some forms of vilification are forbidden by law; perhaps some forms of raillery ought to be prohibited also. [
10] The cultivated gentleman will therefore regulate his wit, and will be as it were a law to himself.
Such then is the middle character, whether he be called ‘tactful’ or ‘witty.’ The buffoon is one who cannot resist a joke; he will not keep his tongue off himself or anyone else, if he can raise a laugh, and will say things which a man of refinement would never say, and some of which he would not even allow to be said to him. The boor is of no use in playful conversation: he contributes nothing and takes offence at everything; [11] yet relaxation and amusement seem to be a necessary element in life. [12]
(Found at http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0054%3Abekker+page%3D1128a)
Hope this is a help for you all, and as always, God Bless.
Mike Senders
